Wurlitzer 2410 problem

I'm a pinball guy and jukes are kinda tuff for me.I have a 2410 that when the arms move around and touch the selected pin the arms won't push it down ,so the mech binds and won't move Does anyone have an idea where to start Thanks Ed

Hi Ed,
I would start by purchasing the Service Manual Package, offered by one of the sellers listed above, or, if you have it, by reading it. There is an explanation of that operation in it--.
In order to diagnose it I would need more info--does it do this at all sections of the Electrical Selector--does it do this only on one side of the record(s). Does it do this consistently, or intermittently ? Ron Rich

NAPA09 wrote:I'm a pinball guy and jukes are kinda tuff for me.I have a 2410 that when the arms move around and touch the selected pin the arms won't push it down ,so the mech binds and won't move Does anyone have an idea where to start Thanks Ed

Ed, I'll give you the Cliff's Notes version of what goes-on here.

When the crank hits a raised pin it releases a spring-loaded actuator that drops down and actuates a microswitch that instantly reverses the changer motor. When that happens the carousel tries to turn in reverse also but is stopped from doing so be backstop pawls that detents it at the correct record slot. A slip clutch allows the rest of the mechanism cam to continue and perform record handling which includes forcing down the crank to reset the pin.

If the mechanism is jamming and trying to continue beyond the point where the crank engages the pin, either the microswitch has failed (often), the spring driven shaft can not drop due to gummy-dry oil (another frequent cause) or the pin bank is drastically misaligned.

If you have not had experience with these mechanisms DO NOT TINKER! You can do a lot of damage to it and possibly injure yourself. There is a fair amount of mechanical force here. Get the manual, read it and things will get a lot clearer.

In the meantime, check the values of ALL fuses for proper rating and remove the amp's 5U4 tube to prevent possible damage to the (presumably) un-rebuilt amplifier.

Rob/NYC

Thanks Ron and Rob ,found one today . Also will look and see if the mech is stuck as there is a lot of dirt/grime etc and the owners says it's been sitting for about 20 yrs

Got the book today and will try to make sense of it,I see that it is very complicated compared to a pinball as far as color code etc.

Hi Ed,
Now that you have the Service Manual,I would advise you to sit down and read it--yes, I think WurliTzer "drawings", are a bit confusing, but I also think "pinball" is confusing ---
That being said--I think, judging from what you have written, the first thing I would look at are the "backstops"--These MUST be clean, and NOT "oiled" ! They also, IMHO, NEVER need "adjustment"--the factory adjustment was set, and then they were painted--if the paint has been "disturbed" most likely the will need to be re-adjusted, and for some reason, I have never been able to do this by setting it back to the "painted" lines ?
Happy reading--good luck !
Ron Rich

if the paint has been "disturbed" most likely the will need to be re-adjusted, and for some reason, I have never been able to do this by setting it back to the "painted" lines ?

FWIW: I've often removed these during washing , some were rusty, and always reset them as part of tweaking the operation.

To realign a backstop (my way): Manually bring the mechanism to a point where the lift arm is just entering the carousel divider. Carefully loosen the two screws that secure that side's backstop and bring the pawl into contact with the gear tooth closest to it while watching that you have not disturbed the centering of the lift arm. You can reduce the ticking noise as the carousel turns by how the backstop is set. I set them so that the pawl is at the outermost point on the tooth and the pawl shank (there is an old word) itself is "almost" touching" the nest tooth as well. This reduces the snap noise as the carousel turns.

All this is done with the top arch and mech motor removed and the mech supported so as to allow easy observation.

Wurlitzer did a "decent" job with setup consistency, but the fact that they were "cranking them out" and variables in the potmetal lift arms has shown some occasional improvement from a more precise setup, especially since I also reduce the lift arm force.

Rob

Thanks again for all the info.Now to try and digest it.Is the Wurlitzer boxes positive grd?

There are both Neg. and Pos. grounds in most models.
Ron Rich

Thanks Ron, I may have found what may be the problem.It seems that the selector motor is just humming but not reversing. Does this make sense?
reversing relay? Thanks

Ed,
Humming, himmmmmm--- Maybe the motor, or maybe the power supply??? --"24VCD"---
Ron Rich

Ron, I thought the same, I have no DC but have 26 AC between the red wire and one black (haven't traced yet) with it unplugged,with it plugged in it still has 26 AC with the red wire but on the other black wire. I checked the wires going to the motor with the connectors unplugged with my meter and all of them have continuity,I thought for a motor to reverse one wire has to be open.
Any thoughts ?

I may have been on the "wrong track" here--I was thinking "Basket/lift arm" motor ---sorry !
I don't have a schematic handy now-but if you are speaking of the motor that drives the "gear wheel", that releases pins,
it IS an AC motor--two motor windings, if I recall correctly. It's "operated" by the "stopping switch", AND the "reversing switch". With the power OFF, you should be able to turn that large metal gear by hand, in either direction. If you can't, either the motor has jammed, or more likely, one of the "tabs" that "release a pin", is jammed between two pins. You will probably need to remove the E selector, as it is ALWAYS ( Murphy's law !) one in the back, where you can't see, that has jammed--Ron Rich

Ron Rich wrote:Ed,
Humming, himmmmmm--- Maybe the motor, or maybe the power supply??? --"24VCD"---
Ron Rich

Nope. This is a switching error -that is all it can be. There should be approx 28Vdc on the changer motor field coil at all times while a session is ongoing. The armature is the same voltage but it reverses polarity.

If you look at this simplified diagram of a 2204 at the far right is the same DC motor switching Wurlitzer used for all carousel models till the 2700 when an AC motor was introduced.

http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... ort=2&o=42

If the crank is jamming against a pin is is because the switch that is actuated by the crank is not operating.

Given the age and torpidity of this mechanism, you have gummed-up switches and mechanical actuators.

Read, and follow the instructions for removing the pinbank-junction (memory) but keep them connected. You should be able to see the actuator "pip" that hangs down from the center shaft and drops further when the crank would encounter a pin.

With the pinbank separated from the mech, tip a pin to start the carousel scanning. Find the reversing microswitches and it's paddle (in the pinbank-junction box, press down to actuate the switches. The mech motor should reverse and raise the lift arms, etc.

Believe me, this is a -very- simple, routine problem to diagnose...but it can be a pain to free-up gummed parts.

FWIW: The carousel was the by-far the best mechanism Wurlitzer ever designed. In direct comparison with the E-M Seeburgs (A-JL) the Wurlitzer pinbank was a lot better and easier to service. The solenoid driven 100-104 models were the best selection system available prior to the Tormat.

Wurlitzer should have retained that mechanism. It would have been -easy- to adapt to processor control.

Rob/NYC

Ed,
This is getting confuzzing--WHICH "motor" is causing a problem ??
Ron Rich