Seeburg AY160 plays more than selected.

Wayne,'
No--just 40/60 solder--a Whitney-Roper hand punch. Ron Rich

Ron I was thinking of replacing the RCA plug that plugs into the pulse amplifier. Right now on mine the green wire goes to the long post and the red and bare wire are twisted together and soldered to the shell. Is this correct before I solder on a new plug?

Wayne, while I'm WAY too young to be Ron (feels nice to say that ) I have a suggestion here; solder a short length of wire (2-3 in) to the outer shell of the RCA plug, add a spade lug and place that under a screw on/near the pulse amp. This will assure a good ground and help prevent situations where the machine trips when a selection if made. I do this on my location machines.

There is little advantage in replacing that RCA plug. Clean the center contact and slightly pinch the shell and it will be OK. If you do want to replace it, notice that the original has a longer center contact (or "pinga" as my Mex friends call it) so check the the replacement will still make adequate contact in the pulse amp.

Rob/NYC

Rob,
Got bad news for you--time fly's--pretty soon I'll be gone, and you WILL BE "the old guy" !
Wayne--
IMHO, there is really no reason, unless damaged to replace it--and yes, it MUST have the shield and one "wire" soldered to the shell---Ron Rich

Rob,
Got bad news for you--time fly's--pretty soon I'll be gone......

Not too soon, I hope. You will almost certainly be involved here longer than I will.

The situation in the NY metro area is already grim. Nearly everybody that I knew in that business is dead, moved away or can't remember their name. At 57 it feels weird to be repeatedly called "the last man standing" by people telling of how hard it is in this area to get anyone to look at their old machines...and I don't do house calls. Two of the remaining operators have tried to sell me the few diner locations they still have.

The future of our hobby-business is in these online forums. The days of writing to a magazine and waiting a month or so for a printed reply are gone. When people in my locations ask about getting their home machines fixed, I send them to forums like this one.

It is not that this stuff is hard to learn about, the issue is that while young people will pose for pic's in front of the machines, their attentions is elsewhere. Who can blame them.

Rob

Ok so I recently recapped the tsu5 and reinstalled all the tubes and put back inside the seeburg. I also resilver end the contact plungers that ride the tormat. After all that it still scans twice and doesn't pick up a record. Where should I start to check next? What is the best way to check the tormat to see if is ok?

Wayne, if you are now confident that readout is OK, the next step is to look at the write-in ckts.

http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... ort=3&o=16

Above is the simplified for the tube era Tormat W-I circuits with one small difference: thermistor R32 is located inside the Tormat on your later model -not in the selection receiver as depicted here.

We start with voltage checks as shown. If all check Ok, move on to the following.

Clean and test for continuity the W-I contacts on the credit unit.

Open the E & D link, connect one lead of your ohmmeter (DVM) to the D contact and the other to chassis ground.

--Make sure power is off---.

As you can see in the diagram, the W-I pulse enters the number switches, gets switched to the selected number crosshatch, comes back out and into the letter switches.

Pressing A and 1 together should give an ohmmeter reading of around 190-200 ohms to ground. Ideally, pressing V and 8 should not be above that, but as a practical matter some added resistance may occur. The circuit uses high voltages to compensate for this, but it is best to keep the series resistance below 300 ohms.

Some causes of higher readings:

1) Dirty slide contacts in the keyboard.

2) Oxidation on the Jones plugs

3) Pitted/dirty points on the timing relay contacts that switch the W-I source from the keyboard to the stepper. Note that these contacts exist whether a stepper is present or not.

Rob/NYC

Wayne,
Did you note Rob's first line above ? Will it now detent at EVERY selection, if the TMU is "flipped" with a known good D cell ??

Ok before I start to do that I just want to clarify what I've been trying. I go through the troubleshooting guide for when the mech scans twice and stops. The first test is to connect one wire to c and while mech is scanning insert other end of wire into pulse amplifier input. It should trip, mine doesn't and the next step is to connect wire to b and while scanning momentary touch a and it should trip. Mine does trip for this test. The next thing it says is to replace 2xa7 tube. That tube has been replaced with brand new tube. Then it says check input plug for pulse amplifier it replaced with new and it still scans twice and stops. Starting to get a little confused on what else should be checked. Recapped tsu and fixed contact plunger tips.

Wayne, I'm no good with when it comes to referencing those "test points" -I've never had the test procedures for those old machines. I use schematic only.

Here is the sensing & trip for that era:

http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... sort=3&o=0

The input to the pulse amp is transformer coupled. The DC resistance is approx 43 ohms on one I have here.

Did you replace the 047mfd and check the 5.6 meg resistor -both @ the 12AX7 socket?

If grounding Pin 5 on the 2050 socket (grid) trips then you have continuity through that ckt. Failure to respond to the battery test then points to defective readout plunger connections or voltage, or defective pulse amp module.

As shown in the readout schematic, there is approx 300vdc at the active readout plunger --if it is not touching a tormat rivet and the detent sw is closed--. When the readout plunger is on a rivet the voltage is grounded out by the low loop impedance. Bring the mech to a rivet, slide a card between plungers and Tormat and measure voltage to ground. Rear plunger is active on A side scan. Front plunger for B side scan.

The 0A2 regulators will dim/flicker slightly as the mech scans. This indicates current drawn for readout. Connecting a typical neon test light to the junction of G and H and chassis will show if current is being drawn as the during scan. the lamp will go out at each rivet. Make sure service is "normal".

Rob/NYC

Wayne,
Assuming the read out plunger, and detent switch, contacts are good---TMU alignment and detent switch are correctly adjusted, all caps are good--
Check ALL resistors in the read-out circuit--and in the PA--they are prone to "change value"--
Ron Rich

Ron Rich wrote:Wayne,
Did you note Rob's first line above ? Will it now detent at EVERY selection, if the TMU is "flipped" with a known good D cell ??

Hey Ron,

It will still not detent every selection, it will skip the first six records pick up four in a row skip a couple pick up another four or five skip a few and it will do this till the end of the rack. Immediately after the d battery test if i insert coin and make a selection it will pick it up. problem is it will only do this a few times then go back to scanning twice and stopping. Also it will only pick up records that around close to the middle of the rack. It always ignores the A1 or C1 selection. The pulse amplifier was redone with the tsp and a brand new tube was installed in the pulse amp. Where should i start my next investigation?

Wayne,
ASSUMING, no problems in the TSU---
Almost,for SURE, you have mechanical problems in the frog, detent switch, or alignment of the TMU--
Check the pins on the frog first--they must be flat-to slightly domed, AND have silver on top. The wire connecting the pins must be 32 gauge, flexible, and well soldered. The "Grounding Bar" on the TMU must have silver left in the area that the pins contact--also, the Phillips screws that hold that bar must be snug-not over-tightened ! The pins must be free to ride "up / "down" as shown in the SM, and the TMU alignment to the record rack, as well as frog, must be correct. The detent switch must be free of "pits", and adjusted for contact gap, as well as contact "wipe". It also must have the correct value choke installed.
Ron Rich

I'm having a hard time finding 32 guage wire. The closest I found is 22 guage and it really thin. Would this work on the contact block that rides the tmu.

Wayne. I've long used the super flexible braided wire that is used to connect speaker voice coils to the solder/spade connections. if you have some speakers with blown voice coils or ruined cones try using that.

The other favorite is pickup wire. Really any tiny flexible stranded wire can be used as long as the plungers are free.


What you describe sounds like a slight wobble is occurring in the star wheel that actuates the detent switch. Loosen the locknut just enough to turn the adjustment screw a half turn -counter-clockwise-.

This will allow the wheel to punch the detent switch ever-so sooner and compensate for any wobble. the one minor caution here; if you see sparking on the active plunger under the Tormat it might be necessary to turn the adjustment a tiny bit clockwise to reduce-eliminate this. The only real problem with sparking there is that it will foul the rivets with carbon over time and they'll need more frequent cleaning.

The H-V hideaway I have in service has that problem and every 4-5 years I must check the detent switch as the contacts wear slightly and as it scans you can see that some pulses are shorter than others. This happens at a consistent rhythm across the rack. I simply look at the dips in the 0A2 regulator tubes to see it. If I manually turn the motor shaft to make it scan slowly I can actually see the contacts being pressed closer at some points and less at others.

Rob/NYC