Wurlitzer 2410 problem

Thanks again guys for helping a rookie.The selector motor is the one that gets hot and hums after I select a letter/number, the number pin goes down and gives me 26 vts at the center of my start switch and when I trip it the truntable mech will start scaning(( not the selector). after reading the book it says the selector motor should run clockwise then move the triangle plate till it hits the start/reverse switches then reverse. It's almost like the motor is trying to run both ways at the same time or the motor don't have enough torque as everything seems to move freely.

Sorry Ron , it's the selector motor.Although all the selector mech components are moving freely the selector motor won't turn when the start switch is closed or open it just hums/hot I did notice the I have 26 volts on all 3 contacts on the start switch and the schematic shows it as a open/ closed with a common but will start the truntable unit when closed. Can I remove the selector unit at the bottom? I have a centering shaft to realign it .Looks like 2 screws and 2 allen head screws and plug everything in and operate it on the bench to isolate it from the truntable mech
Looking at the schematic from Rob I see what he's saying about about the motor reversing etc but can't find the paddle part in the junction box. Sorry for being confused as this is a whole new world for me.

Ed,
Did you attempt to move that "large gear" ( tho one that is normally moved by the selector motor) ?
You need to answer questions so we can get on the same track--
Ron Rich

Ron ,sorry for confusing, It is the selector motor that hums/hot .I just took the gear assembly apart and found a nut inside that holds the motor to the gear set.Woopie I thought I found the problem,thinking that maybe the torque of the motor was causing a twist and locking because of the nut.No such luck, so I jumpered 26 volt red to red and the 26 vol t to both black wires one at a time and the motor still hums etc. So I'm guessing the motor is bad?

Let's try to get terms straight and avoid confusion.

There are -two- motors on that mechanism:

1) Turntable motor.

2) Changer motor. This is the motor under the deck that operates the changer carousel and record handling.

In the pin memory the rockers which rotate several degrees are operated by a -driver solenoid-. There is no motor.

Take a look at this sad example of a xx10 pin memory:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wurlitzer-JUKEB ... 3f3de0eb33

(BTW, the listing is wrong. That unit will not work in a 1700-1800. those are totally different).

The driver solenoid is missing, not unusual since they are prone to burnout if the switching does not punch the pin. In the center below the hole is a paddle that activates the two reversing switches on the outside of the box. You can see where the switches were in one of the shots. These switches reverse the -changer motor- when the crank his a raised pin. This is totally separate from the action of the driver solenoid.

The memory unit is removed intact with three Allen head bolts. Do NOT remove the smaller screws on each plate that the Allen bolts go through, if you do it will make realignment more complicated.

Rob

Rob,
You are confusing the -04, series phono's, with the -10'series phono's, which is nothing more then a reduced 200 mech (100 selections), which DOES have the same AC motor drive for the Electrical Selector. Thus, there are 3 motors in that model -- or 4, if equipped with the optional PRVC. I also believe the "lister" is correct--the 1700 - 1900, and all of the -04 type models,
"Electrical Selector" are, if not exactly the same, at least very similar, and probably (guessing here !), interchangeable. Ron Rich

Junking Jim has a 3300 selector motor on ebay and it looks the same except for the wiring connector .I sent him a message to see if it will interchange Ed

Ron, the 100-104 models have a driver solenoid -not a motor. I've owned a 2304-2710-2810-3110 (had burned-out driver). Take a look at the linked e-bay pics. You can see the underside where solenoid would be mounted mounted.

I did a search for a 2310 and found what you describe: http://www.southtexasantiqueelectronics.com/2310-31.JPG So they may have made them both ways at some point, but all of the xx10s that I've owned were solenoid driven.

Here you can see a 2610 with the small pin memory that was used in the 104-100s http://www.pinballrebel.com/archive/wur ... /w2600.htm These used a driver solenoid.

Here is a shot of the last iteration of the 100 memory: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Wurlitzer-2810-2 ... 1247515886 Scroll down to see the driver and how it is linked.

Machines with a "Top Tunes" feature did have an additional AC motor to punch the included pins, but I don't believe that existed before the 2700 series.

The 1700-1800 used totally different memory with a separate magnet for each pin and group commoning relays for A-B-C-D. The first 200 (model 2000) scaled-up this arrangement -UGH!

Rob

Rob,
I could well be in error, but it its my belief that all "-04", models were 104 select models, and used the same basic selection system as the 1700/18/1900 models( and yes, the UGH, ,2000 model). The "-10" models were 100 selection, "cut down", versions of the 200 selection models, 2100, up to the 3300, which used the AC motor drive on the pin-bank. I think the photo posted as a "2610" is really a photo of a "2604". Ron Rich

Ron, some minor clarifications (hey, it is raining heavily here in NYC -I'm stuck indoors). The 1700-1800 used magnet-per-pin. This is what it looks like:
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/c ... -103852160 No motors or solenoids.

Beginning with the 1900 they used a driver solenoid and group magnets. A 1900 pic: http://www.retroaudiolab.com/pictures/e ... edrear.jpg

Here is a 2410 with the same memory (what a wreck): http://public.fotki.com/mikesmusicalmem ... 410/#media

If you look at the machine pictured on this page: http://www.pinballrebel.com/archive/wur ... /w2600.htm you'll see that is a 100 -ten letters and ten numbers.

The 2510 has the same memory unit: http://www.pinballrebel.com/archive/wur ... /w2510.htm

So, the mystery remains; what models and for how long did Wurlitzer use a scaled-back motorized memory. My guess is for the 2310 (mine had the solenoid type) and -possibly some- 2410 versions.

Rob

Thanks for all the info, mine has a motor driven by 5 wires one connector has 3 wires red and 2 black, it also has a 2 pin connector that looks like it is a thermal or? The junction box is mounted on the bottom of the cabinet.Could someone at one point put another type of unit? Looking again at Junking motor it is for a 3000 but looks like thetype I would need. I'm stumped why the motor will not spin after taking off the gearbox when all the winding check ok as far as continuity unless the armature is bad

Did "someone" loosen the alignment screws on that motor ?? You might as well dis-assemble it, oil it with 20 wt. ND, re-assemble/align, and it will probably work--? Ron Rich

NAPA09 wrote:Thanks for all the info, mine has a motor driven by 5 wires one connector has 3 wires red and 2 black, it also has a 2 pin connector that looks like it is a thermal or? The junction box is mounted on the bottom of the cabinet.Could someone at one point put another type of unit? Looking again at Junking motor it is for a 3000 but looks like thetype I would need. I'm stumped why the motor will not spin after taking off the gearbox when all the winding check ok as far as continuity unless the armature is bad

Ok, if you have a motorized search unit. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wurlitzer-Carou ... 1290078527 it is a 25 volt AC reversing motor. It must have a good phase shifting capacitor associated with it and all windings must be connected. I have a diagram for a 2200 (should be same motor) it shows a 75mfd cap.

When I get back later, I'll scan-post the schematic. There is a thermal cutout to protect the motor since it operates briefly in stall condition to index the plungers. If write-in fails due to poor relay contacts or a failed microswitch in the center of the pinbank, the motor remains stalled until power is cut.

On that type of search unit, http://www.southtexasantiqueelectronics.com/2310-31.JPG there is are two microswitches. You can see them near the lower right center. One reverses the motor after write-in and the other triggers the write-in sequence. Failure in the W-I switch will cause a stall.

I don't remember which of the two is the reversing sw, however in standby mode (powered but not selecting) pressing the actuator on the reversing switch will cause the search motor to reverse and run as long as you hold it in. Pressing the W-I switch will do nothing in standby.

Rob

Rob,
Where do you find all these lovely images of "rust-buckets" ?
I don't have a schematic here either, but I think pressing the reversing switch pulls a relay, which runs the motor--My memory says that there is a thermal CB, in the motor (which fails !!!), and a fuse, in that circuit (8/10 SB, on the J Box ?).
Ron Rich

First I want to thank both of you for all your help in the problem,yes Rob that is the motor.I'm going to see if Junkin has one and if not will order that one.I guessing that will be only one of my problems and will follow the book on setup and only pray that's it.I will let both of you know asap and again thanks Ed