Seeburg LPC-1, worth picking up?

I'm going to look at a Seeburg LPC-1 tomorrow. The guy selling it is actually selling 250 45s at $1 a piece, and throwing in this non-functioning juke. He hasn't used it in 5 yrears. Says it powers on and lights up, but will not pick up a record. He says it used to work, and he would have a technician come out and adjust it from time to time. Would like your opinions on whether this is worth picking up at about the stated price. I know that the LPC-1 is not a highly collectable juke, and I also understand it is plagued with motor problems because of the 33 rmp LPs it was designed to play. But I also understand that there is a gear mod that can be used to convert it to just play 45s?

Anyway, any advice would be welcome. Other than making sure all the parts are inside, anything special I should look for?

I do have a Rowe R-74 project I haven't got running yet......but it seems more parts and instructions are available for Seeburgs.

If you are going to 'pick it up" you better bring three strong friends with hernia belts

The LPC was a design and trend setter in 1962, but is does lack the visual "excitement" of the visible mech machines.

These are the most complex Seeburgs made -both mechanically and electronically. I still have one on location (not my choice) and used a HLPC Hideaway for three years in the early 1990s.

These can be reliable machines, but they --must-- be fully restored with washed mechanism and rebuilt electronics.

My personal take on these machines fifty-two years out.

1) the native 33 rpm means that the motor will be powered by the speed unit for most use (45rpm) This unit is an oscillator/amplifier that puts out approx 84Hz to run the motor faster, but at a lower voltage. Over the years the motor is often neglected or improperly oiled resulting in glazed bearings. the result of all this is the these machines will often start noticeably slower on the first record when running on 45rpm. There are relativity simple fixes for this but you'll need to know how to clean and deglaze motor bearings if this is happening on your machine..or just live with it.
--Forget changing gears, that is major surgery that even I shied away from.

2) The styli for these machines are no longer made. See this topic:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6588

3) The LPC picks from only one direction. That combined with a heavy mech cover tends to wear the clutch member faster on these models. Fixable but not easily so. You can not "adjust around this one".

These are the most interesting Seeburgs from a technical standpoint. I enjoyed making it jump through some hoops when experimenting with them 28 year ago. But you will need to be competent in electro-mechanical devices to get and keep them running.

I suggest skipping this and fix up your Rowe. Simpler operation -more selections-better sound.

Rob/NYC

Wow Rob, thanks for such a thorough response. I am a neophyte in EM restorations, so unless I get a fabulous deal from the guy, I will skip it as you suggest. I gree it doesn't seem to be the sexiest machine out there....

Guy's,
I dis-agree with Rob's opinion, in many respects--
I still maintain a HLPC in an Italian Risturante, that operates 7 days a week for at least 4 hours per day. I totally rebuilt this machine about 5 years ago, and have only had one call on it since--the wire to the end of record switch broke off-- I have oiled it on a yearly basis--and kept it fairly clean--. It still runs with the original 33 native gears, and the Autospeed-
I have rebuilt at least 1000 of the LPC-1/480 type phono's to Seeburg's commercial specs. I consider it to be one of the best models ever built--and, BTW--the mechanism cover is no heavier then the ones used on the previous Q-DS models ?
As far as being the most complicated--not really, IMHO, as the model "A" was the most complicated coin operated phonograph built.
The AMS-1 was even more "complicated" having dual selection systems, (dual Tormats)--but that was not a coin op phono--
If the cabinet is decent, the internal electronics are easy to rebuild, and the mechanism is not much more difficult, then any other Seeburg phono, so I would defiantly pick it up--. For the "three strong friends"-- not a bad idea ! -- but, I have moved many all by myself--a dolly (or "trolly" for you guys across the pond )is required,if there are any stairs--but it can be done, as the weight is approximately the same as most other cabinets. Ron Rich

So I went and looked at the machine. It lights up, but that's about it. When you push in a selection, you can hear it click like a relay is working, but nothing moves. I can't get the mechanism to move along the track to select a record. Even pushing the scan lever doesn't activate anything. I've never looked at a Seeburg before, but I'm guessing that the turntable is in the mechanism that slides along the track, and nothing was turning there either.

The machine was in a dark basement, and even with a flashlight couldn't see much. Had the standard mouse droppings in it. Front of the cabinet looked okay, but big piece of formica missing from the lower end of the left side panel. Otherwise seemed to be in pretty good shape.

Any ideas on why nothing was moving? I couldn't even find the fuse panel, so I really couldn't trouble shoot this thing at all.

I told the guy I'd try to do some research to find out what would be needed to get it running. So far, haven't found any schematics or manuals on the internet that are free. Any suggestions?

Seeburgs were woefully under-fused. The main fuse is located in a junction/plugging box at the back inside of the cabinet. If it lights up and 'clicks -that fuse will be OK.

The other fuse is in the control unit. Again, given the clicking, that one is probably good too.

The other fuse is in the amp which has no effect here.

I do have the LPC480 original schematics here:

http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... ort=2&o=19

http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... ort=2&o=11

http://s1192.photobucket.com/user/Rob-N ... ort=2&o=10

Unfortunately Photobucket re-compresses them a bit, bit if you use the download button on the lower right side they will at least be readable. A complete manual is essential if this is your first Seeburg -especially this one.

Understand that to do this properly requires removing all components, washing --everything-- except the speakers. Then rebuilding the electronics, relubing and tending whatever ails the mechanism.

While I hate to see these old machines moldering in some basement or warehouse, this is a complex machine and it is over 50 years old. Even if you just "get it to work", without a total overhaul you'll have repeated problems and possibly some catastrophic failure of one of the transformers when ancient capacitors develop heavy leakage or short outright.

I'm not trying to discourage you- with some study and innate skill you CAN do this work. I am trying to be realistic with regard to a machine that has probably been neglected for decades.

Rob-NYC

Be careful if getting it operational or semi-operational at the seller's residence, you'll either end up having to pay a higher price or the seller may want to keep it if it now works.

What sort of price is being asked? (sorry, read back, selling the 45 records and this is being put in on the deal for $250?) Obviously in non-working condition, with a lot up in the air about what it may need to fix, you could ask a fair bit lower to purchase it. If it's a decent price in current condition, buy it and bring it home to fix it up?

Tim

The seller wouldn't budge on the $250. He insisted that the records were worth at least that much. I explained I really wasn't interested in buying a bunch of 45s, but he still wouldn't deal. He did admit that if he didn't sell the juke by the time he moved in a few months it was going to the dump. I left telling him I'd get back to him after trying to do a little research into how hard it would be to fix this thing. After looking over the schematics, I am going to tell him I am not interested in paying anything for the juke. I'm going to ask that if he doesn't get it sold before he moves, to call me before he takes it to the dump, and I"ll move it out of his house for him. It is not the sexiest machine out there, and I've already got a project, but free is free!

Boneman,
My bet--you'll get a phone call in a month, or so-- Ron Rich