Magnavox Custom Imperial Woofer Replacement

Electrically amplified phonographs or radio/phonographs and related components (approx. 1928-1990).



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jsanford
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Magnavox Custom Imperial Woofer Replacement

by jsanford » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:25 am

Hello, newbie here (but the console is not new to me)

I have a nice big 1970 Magnavox Custom Imperial. It has always had a slight scratch in the right channel. I finally decided to get to the bottom of it and discovered a rubbing voice coil in the 15" woofer.
I know the the woofer was manufactured by Eminence for Magnavox. Eminence is still in business (unlike Magnavox) and makes a line of woofers that would fit, I just don't understand the wattage. My amp is 150 watts according to the brochure, the new speakers come as 200 watts and up. Does the wattage of the new woofer really matter?

Anyone with experience replacing speakers in vintage consoles have any advice?

Here is my console
Image
70Mag 9 by jsanford_rambler, on Flickr

Thanks!
Jeremy

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MattTech
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Re: Magnavox Custom Imperial Woofer Replacement

by MattTech » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:14 am

Rare for a Maggie woofer to go sour.
But it can happen, particularly if the set is repeatedly pushed.

I'd first check the amp output itself.
See if any DC volts are across the outputs with no signal.
Because if so, they can fry a new woofer voice coil in a short time.
And that requires an amp service.

As for wattage, that console "rated" wattage is nowhere near the wattage they claim.
Most it can pump out is 40-50 per channel on a good day.

If a new replacement speaker is ordered, two will be needed, to keep the set in balance.
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Topic author
jsanford
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Location: Sacramento CA, USA

Re: Magnavox Custom Imperial Woofer Replacement

by jsanford » Fri Jan 24, 2014 8:37 am

When I managed to get the speaker grille off I found what caused the damage. At some point some liquid got on the lower part of the cone (my guess is that Fido lifted his leg) which caused the cone to distort and the voice coil to rub.

I will take a look at the amp tomorrow and see if I can identify the outputs, it has a big multi wire plastic plug.

I realize that advertising is always optimistic on power ratings, but check out the convincing description of the amp from the brochure:
Image
70Mag 11 by jsanford_rambler, on Flickr

Thanks!
Jeremy


Rob-NYC
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Re: Magnavox Custom Imperial Woofer Replacement

by Rob-NYC » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:08 am

Jeremy, the outputs from the amp are the purple-brown and pink wires at the top of the amp in your picture:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/56778241@N ... /lightbox/

Do not "poke around" on a live transistor amp if you do not know what you are
doing. While these amps are not as potentially lethal as tube amps, here the danger is to the transistors. Even the briefest short can kill them.

Given that the unit is now 44 years old at least a partial rebuild is in order.

Some preliminary things to check:

With the unit on but no signal, wait a few minutes, turn the volume control through it's range. Ideally, there should be no "static" as you turn it. Same applies to tone and balance controls. Static in this test generally indicates the capacitors that pass audio but block DC from the controls have become leaky.

Set volume at midpoint and turn the function/input switch. It too should be quiet although a little noise is OK.

Static on the controls when audio is being passed just indicates dirty controls.

With balance control set at center do the channels balance in terms of volume and tone in ALL modes?

Again with machine on but no signal carefully feel the heatsinks on the output transistors (the large black fins) after a period of around 10-15 minutes. Slight warmth is normal -but not hot. the two heatsinks represent the outputs of each channel. One should not be much warmer than the other.

If the set passes all above it is probably OK to continue using it, but best performance will likely require a rebuild at some point.

The turntable and tape deck should get a thorough going over with cleaning and lube.

As for replacing the woofer, I agree w/Matt that to retain balance in both tone and level both would need replacement.

It may be possible to --slightly-- bend the woofer frame or simply moisten the cone a bit and place the speaker face down to dry.

If you can find a small transformer that puts out 3 to 5 volts AC connecting that to the woofer will allow you to hear what effect, if any, slight bending will have on the rubbing. Disconnect it from the amp first. On large woofer like this sometimes just turning it 180 degrees (upside) will shift the weight of the cone enough to eliminate the rubbing.

The text you attached about the sets features spec's the output at "EIA Music Power" this was a scheme that the electronics industry developed back in the late 1940's. It is based on the theory that a complex signal such as music is far less demanding than a sine wave in terms of revealing distortion. So the theory goes that one could push more power from an amp at higher measurable distortion levels with music before it became noticeable....O...K...

While this is somewhat true, the businessmen went a little "crazy" with it (I'm being charitable) and things got to the point that by around 1975 the FTC required that continuous RMS into a specified load become the standard. Over the last few 'business friendly" administrations things have deteriorated again (1000 watt HTiB systems, etc).

Typically Music power is twice the RMS so your set is probably capable of around 35 w/ch with both channels driven. With efficient speakers this will still drive you out of the room.

Rob/NYC
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MattTech
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Re: Magnavox Custom Imperial Woofer Replacement

by MattTech » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:51 pm

jsanford wrote:When I managed to get the speaker grille off I found what caused the damage. At some point some liquid got on the lower part of the cone (my guess is that Fido lifted his leg) which caused the cone to distort and the voice coil to rub.

I will take a look at the amp tomorrow and see if I can identify the outputs, it has a big multi wire plastic plug.

I realize that advertising is always optimistic on power ratings, but check out the convincing description of the amp from the brochure:
Jeremy



Indeed, fancy descriptions of power ratings and details of dancing ladies can lure the potential customer into buying something.
It's all "marketing" talk mostly.
Trust me, it's overblown to impress.

As was mentioned, these units are now way past their "service life" and due for some serious overhauling to reverse the decades of aging that naturally happens.
The Internet is a marvelous thing, however it's not a good substitute for actually being there.


Topic author
jsanford
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Location: Sacramento CA, USA

Re: Magnavox Custom Imperial Woofer Replacement

by jsanford » Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:10 pm

Thank you Rob and Matt for the replies!

I fully intend to replace the woofers as a set. I did mess around a little with the existing speaker, tried turning 180 etc, but it still rubs.

With my amp putting out so little wattage would a 200w speaker even work?

Thanks!
Jeremy

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MattTech
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Re: Magnavox Custom Imperial Woofer Replacement

by MattTech » Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:29 am

jsanford wrote:Thank you Rob and Matt for the replies!

I fully intend to replace the woofers as a set. I did mess around a little with the existing speaker, tried turning 180 etc, but it still rubs.

With my amp putting out so little wattage would a 200w speaker even work?

Thanks!
Jeremy


Best bet is to ebay a replacement - noting the ID number as a reference.
They are out there.
The Internet is a marvelous thing, however it's not a good substitute for actually being there.


Topic author
jsanford
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Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:36 am
Location: Sacramento CA, USA

Re: Magnavox Custom Imperial Woofer Replacement

by jsanford » Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:51 am

There is one set of used speakers with my same part number on eBay for $70 plus $40 shipping! They aren't even NOS, just 40 year old used speakers. :cry:

Jeremy

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Record-changer
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Re: Magnavox Custom Imperial Woofer Replacement

by Record-changer » Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:39 am

The wattage rating on a speaker is the maximum it can be used with, not a typical use value. My main speakers are rated at 60 watts, and measurements show my amps usually put about 2 to 3 watts into them at normal listening level.
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